Infernal Ramblings
A Malaysian Perspective on Politics, Society and Economics

Islamic Country, Islamic State?

Written by johnleemk on 2:25:51 pm Aug 9, 2007.
Categories: ,

There has been a lot of controversy as of late regarding Deputy Prime Minister Najib "bathe the keris with Chinese blood" Razak's statement that Malaysia is an Islamic state. (Of course, the ban on public debate of the issue is another matter altogether.)

What I find interesting is the lack of clarity concerning this issue. To my knowledge, terms like "Islamic state" and "secular state" are thrown around all the time, but never have they been precisely defined.

As anyone who has participated in a debate knows, the very first thing you must do is attempt to define what it is you are debating. Otherwise, the debate cannot go on.

Without clear and adequate definitions of these terms, where do we go from here? For all you know, Islamists and secularists are closer than they think — it is their different definitions of the same words that drives a wedge between them.

The term "Islamic state" is not exactly clear. To some people, it means a country where a plurality or majority of the population is Muslim. To others, it is a country where Islam is the official religion of the state. To others, it is a Muslim theocracy.

Likewise, what is a "secular state"? To some, it is a country where the laws are man-made, not God-authored. To others, it is a country which does not discriminate because of religion. To some, it might be a country with no official religion.

These definitions might seem all quite similar to you. However, they all carry quite different connotations and implications; carelessly throwing around these terms without stating what you mean by them is like lobbing something without checking whether it is a grenade, first-aid kit, or white flag.

This is why I am try to be careful in my terminology; my main objection is to an Islamic theocracy, not necessarily to a country with Islam as the official religion or even a country which implements Islamic law as a subsidiary of civil law under the Constitution.

Of course, we have not even looked at the minefield known as the language barrier yet. A lot of statements on this issue are made in Malay, but they use the vague term "negara Islam". This can be translated as either Islamic country or Islamic state.

The term "Islamic country" is even more vague than "Islamic state"; I would say that if you define an Islamic country as one where most of the people are Muslim, then Malaysia is an Islamic country but not necessarily an Islamic state.

The most frustrating thing is that the debate continues to be muddied by everyone assuming that we are all unanimous on what the definitions of these terms are. PAS speaks of a "negara Islam", as does UMNO. But do PAS and UMNO have the same thing in mind when they use this phrase? What about the DAP or PKR?

We must draw up clear and firm definitions before the debate on Islamism and secularism can proceed. Without such a footing for our discussions and dialogue, we will continue going in circles and ending up nowhere.


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Related comments from forum thread "Racism":
kufar
Member
Posts: 23
IP Logged

Posted at 8:54:58 am Oct 16, 2006
Hello!

PAS is a racist party advocating Muslim supremacy. It must be banned just as Singapore has done to such racist parties. The best way to develop a multi-racial society is to emulate Singaporean model.

Singapore has declared 4 official languages, namely, Mandarin, English, Tamil and Bahasa Melayu.

Singapore has abolished Islam as the official religion but retained limited Syariah law for Muslims on issues of marriage, divorce and inheritance and giving civil court supreme authority to review decisions by Syariah court. A Muslim in Singapore has freedom to renounce Islam if he so wishes, and yes, he may even eat pork while still being Muslim.

Singapore has promoted a Secular ideology called Confucianism that teaches equality of people, irrespective of race, be it Muslim or Kafir.

Singapore is a neighbour that treats is another ASEAN neighbours in a no-nonsense way. LKY refused to consent to building the Crooked Bridge (Jambatan Bengkok) as he said "Why should a Muslim country dictate to a multi-racial country? We just do not need the bridge as we do not get any gain - only the Muslim race will gain, other races will not gain."

Singapore and Israel are MULTI-RACIAL societies giving equality for their Muslim minority with their Kafir majority. We should emulate these governments.

Give me your feedback.

Last five replies (0 comments not shown):
bentmw
Gamemaster
Member
Posts: 219
IP Logged
Posted at 8:22:42 am Nov 2, 2006
couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!! well said kufar...well said..(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
ckng02474
Member
Posts: 14
IP Logged
Posted at 4:10:24 pm Mar 30, 2008
I am unsure if there is an insecurity amongst Malaysians about Singapore, or that Singapore is a constant reminder of what Malaysia could have been, and yet failed.

Perhaps you might want to ask, why so few Malays from Singapore would move to Malaysia, if there was endemic racism in Singapore against the Malays, or that some 300,000 plus, mostly chinese and many are foreign-educated, are now earning a living in Singapore?

We do ask, "What would Singapore do" because Singapore has walked on the path in its socio-economic development Malaysia finds itself on some years down the road. Indeed, the question is posed more at the level, do we need to repeat the mistakes made by Singapore (and they have made many), and can we learn from our Southern neighbor (on policy issues relating to say, health care delivery to education, to public space for political activism) so that we do not need to reinvent the wheel.

Surely, that is the same reason why we learn from others. I would hardly characterize Malaysia's relationship with Singapore as bitter exes ... far from it. And it does a disservice to your political leanings, and belief to frame the issue as such. Singapore gains from Malaysia's disenfrenchisement of its educated ethnic chinese and indians, and Malaysia gains from Singapore's wealth investment and economic foresight. This relationship is far from bitter, but a healthy dose of mature socio-economic interaction between two neighboring countries.

johnleemk
Infernally Rambling Thoughtless Mind
Head Administrator
Posts: 949
IP Logged
Posted at 11:33:38 pm Mar 30, 2008
Perhaps you might want to ask, why so few Malays from Singapore would move to Malaysia, if there was endemic racism in Singapore against the Malays, or that some 300,000 plus, mostly chinese and many are foreign-educated, are now earning a living in Singapore?

That's not quite the correct way to frame the question. The best way to frame the question would be: where is the overall administration worse from a Malay standpoint, Singapore or Malaysia? Singapore discriminates subtly against its non-Chinese citizens, but not to the extent that this outweighs the disadvantages of living in, say, Malaysia. Many Singaporeans do wind up migrating, mind you - just not to Malaysia.

I would hardly characterize Malaysia's relationship with Singapore as bitter exes ... far from it.

You're focusing on the wrong point - our governments relate to each other in this manner, and our own discussions are often punctuated by very similar jabs against the other country. Of course we both benefit from trade and whatnot with each other - but that's hardly ever prevented irrational xenophobia (case in point: Americans and their cheap consumer items from China or cheaper customer service from India).


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