Infernal Ramblings
A Malaysian Perspective on Politics, Society and Economics

What is Secular, What is Islamic?

Written by johnleemk on 1:10:34 pm Aug 16, 2007.
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Today, as part of my work (and for the love of God, please don't ask what I/we do — we get that question far too often, and we struggle insanely to provide a proper answer), I was trawling local blogs for discussions of the Islamic state issue.

One thing I kept stumbling across was the very apparent different definitions being utilised by different sides in the debate. As I have pointed out before, agreeing on what definitions to use for each term is crucial before any real dialogue can commence.

Normally, the issue is thought to be that of the "Islamic state". A lot of people (but far from enough, if you ask me) have pointed out that an Islamic state may mean different things to different parties in the discussion.

After all, to some people, an Islamic state is a country where Islam is the official religion. To others, it is a country where Islam has some influence in the political sphere. To yet more, an Islamic state is a theocratic state.

To rebutt the assertion that Malaysia is an Islamic state, the secularists often point out that we are far from a theocracy — in this country the federal Constitution, not the Quran or Hadith, is the supreme legal document.

However, it seems to me that to those who believe Malaysia is already an Islamic state, their definition of the phrase is more in line with either of the first two definitions I provided.

After all, Islam is the official religion of the country. That politics and Islam mix on a regular basis is undeniable by anyone who hasn't been under a rock for the past five or six centuries. The very fact that we have established a separate legal system for Muslims indicates that we are in, some sense, Islamic.

What I think poses an obvious problem for those who make this assertion is that following precisely these same definitions, Singapore is an Islamic state! After all, Singapore also has Syariah courts; the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura was established by an act of Parliament; the President of Singapore appoints the members of this council; and the government even funds the construction of mosques!

This thorny problem aside, one argument secularists are fond of using is the argument to authority — Tunku Abdul Rahman and Tun Hussein Onn both insisted that we are a secular state, so there!

Of course this argument is perfectly valid — I will not bother going into the details, but suffice it to say that those who have attempted to rebutt this argument have not provided a satisfactory chain of reasoning, if you ask me.

The appropriate line of attack for Islamists, which I have not yet seen used to address the latter argument, is to point out that we have not settled on a definition of a secular state — what definition were these men using?

After all, if you define a secular state as one where there is complete separation of mosque and state, these men were plainly in the wrong, as they cannot supersede the Constitution, which clearly states that not only is Islam the official religion, but makes special provision for Muslims (e.g. non-Muslims may not propagate their religion amongst Muslims).

But what if you just define a secular state as one where the official religion (if any) derives its status not from God, but from man? Where the highest law of the land is not God's law but man's law? Then clearly Malaysia is a secular state.

The debate about whether Malaysia is an Islamic or secular state will continue to go on, without ever reaching a resolution, until we can agree on what definition to go by. The trouble is, getting everybody to agree on one definition is hopeless, because it would force one side to admit that they are in the wrong. No wonder then, that the ruling regime has proclaimed that we are neither an Islamic nor a secular state. They may actually even be closer to the truth than they think.


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Related comments from forum thread "Racism":
kufar
Member
Posts: 23
IP Logged

Posted at 8:54:58 am Oct 16, 2006
Hello!

PAS is a racist party advocating Muslim supremacy. It must be banned just as Singapore has done to such racist parties. The best way to develop a multi-racial society is to emulate Singaporean model.

Singapore has declared 4 official languages, namely, Mandarin, English, Tamil and Bahasa Melayu.

Singapore has abolished Islam as the official religion but retained limited Syariah law for Muslims on issues of marriage, divorce and inheritance and giving civil court supreme authority to review decisions by Syariah court. A Muslim in Singapore has freedom to renounce Islam if he so wishes, and yes, he may even eat pork while still being Muslim.

Singapore has promoted a Secular ideology called Confucianism that teaches equality of people, irrespective of race, be it Muslim or Kafir.

Singapore is a neighbour that treats is another ASEAN neighbours in a no-nonsense way. LKY refused to consent to building the Crooked Bridge (Jambatan Bengkok) as he said "Why should a Muslim country dictate to a multi-racial country? We just do not need the bridge as we do not get any gain - only the Muslim race will gain, other races will not gain."

Singapore and Israel are MULTI-RACIAL societies giving equality for their Muslim minority with their Kafir majority. We should emulate these governments.

Give me your feedback.

Last five replies (0 comments not shown):
bentmw
Gamemaster
Member
Posts: 219
IP Logged
Posted at 8:22:42 am Nov 2, 2006
couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!! well said kufar...well said..(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
ckng02474
Member
Posts: 14
IP Logged
Posted at 4:10:24 pm Mar 30, 2008
I am unsure if there is an insecurity amongst Malaysians about Singapore, or that Singapore is a constant reminder of what Malaysia could have been, and yet failed.

Perhaps you might want to ask, why so few Malays from Singapore would move to Malaysia, if there was endemic racism in Singapore against the Malays, or that some 300,000 plus, mostly chinese and many are foreign-educated, are now earning a living in Singapore?

We do ask, "What would Singapore do" because Singapore has walked on the path in its socio-economic development Malaysia finds itself on some years down the road. Indeed, the question is posed more at the level, do we need to repeat the mistakes made by Singapore (and they have made many), and can we learn from our Southern neighbor (on policy issues relating to say, health care delivery to education, to public space for political activism) so that we do not need to reinvent the wheel.

Surely, that is the same reason why we learn from others. I would hardly characterize Malaysia's relationship with Singapore as bitter exes ... far from it. And it does a disservice to your political leanings, and belief to frame the issue as such. Singapore gains from Malaysia's disenfrenchisement of its educated ethnic chinese and indians, and Malaysia gains from Singapore's wealth investment and economic foresight. This relationship is far from bitter, but a healthy dose of mature socio-economic interaction between two neighboring countries.

johnleemk
Infernally Rambling Thoughtless Mind
Head Administrator
Posts: 948
IP Logged
Posted at 11:33:38 pm Mar 30, 2008
Perhaps you might want to ask, why so few Malays from Singapore would move to Malaysia, if there was endemic racism in Singapore against the Malays, or that some 300,000 plus, mostly chinese and many are foreign-educated, are now earning a living in Singapore?

That's not quite the correct way to frame the question. The best way to frame the question would be: where is the overall administration worse from a Malay standpoint, Singapore or Malaysia? Singapore discriminates subtly against its non-Chinese citizens, but not to the extent that this outweighs the disadvantages of living in, say, Malaysia. Many Singaporeans do wind up migrating, mind you - just not to Malaysia.

I would hardly characterize Malaysia's relationship with Singapore as bitter exes ... far from it.

You're focusing on the wrong point - our governments relate to each other in this manner, and our own discussions are often punctuated by very similar jabs against the other country. Of course we both benefit from trade and whatnot with each other - but that's hardly ever prevented irrational xenophobia (case in point: Americans and their cheap consumer items from China or cheaper customer service from India).


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