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[locked]15 year old drops out and whaps Malaysia
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Thirdshifter
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alright folks get back to topic..

Lets not tur this into a thread about johnleemk's credibility.

Make your argument based on what was posted, not the person who posted it.

I see nothing constructive the way it has been going.

As a warning, I have made reservation for the post hotel, any more reply about issue none other then the issue discussed will confirm the bookings.

Now, please continue and have a peachy day.
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Seiryu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to support lyzzy, and speak up for the teachers, and for MY teachers because all this generalizing had defamed MY teachers terribly and i'm very unhappy about it.

In my school, there are about 30% of teachers who are lazy, however 70% of the teachers are very dedicated in teaching, but, the students nvr wanted to listen to them. One of the reasons is because these students had learnt everything tuition classes.. so they tend to fool around, make stupid jokes and sleep during my teachersssssss' lessonsssss! TEACHERS GET FED UP BECAUSE OF THESE BUNCH OF STUDENTS . Most of the teachers are willing to share their knowledge with students who want to share it! If u ask humbly, believe me, not only the teachers would be keen to help, but they would also bring up more materials from the internet to help you. and i stress, this is not rare! From form one till now, there are only about a handful of teachers who come into the class, say do your own work and hussle out of the class before the bell rings.. and FYI, most of these teachers are temp teachers.

The proof of generalizing can be found in your book, i quote:

Quote:
"Teachers also are intended to sere as a human contact point for students to ask questions and discuss the material they learn. That few teachers are open to questions, and that even fewer opely encourage discussion in class shows a mass failure of the system to stimulate intellectual thought and discussion."


Let me give you an analogy, imagine you are driving on a road and you have to reach a destination on time, what will you feel if the road is filled with bumps and obstacles? Same thing goes here! For most subjects, teachers are only given around 2-3 hours per week to complete the syllabus. If student like you kept bombing her with questions and so on, how do expect her to finish the syllabus? i experienced this and MY FRIENDS scolded me, the words he used to scold me are still fresh in mind. "Shut up lar, let her finish!" From that day onwards, i'd learnt to ask teachers something outside curriculum DURING RECCESS, or WHEN SHE IS FREE.

You can ask questions, u can have discussions! But teachers are not void of emotion, they get fed up when they wan to teach something, and students kept stopping her with questions. Also, humbleness from a student is also the key! Some student bear the attitude of "winning a teacher", rather than "learning from a teacher". They post a question, teachers answer. They are unhappy because teachers could answer! they post another one... and another and another until the teacher says, "it won't come out in spm"... And what happen to the students when the teachers answer in this way? They start writing books to defame malaysian education system. Of cos this doesn't happen to everyone. From my experience, if a student can lower himself and request aid from a teacher in a humble manner, there's no reason why a teacher wouldn't help! in fact, the situation where teachers ignore me when i seek for aid never happens in my life before... The most they say, would be "boy, i'm a little busy right now, can u come see me on the fifth period? we'll discuss bout it then"

I'd say that

Problem lies, with the students, NOT THE TEACHERS, NOT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, EVEN IF IT IS FLAWED . When they face a problem in a system, they try to change it... They blame, they complain. BUT WHY THEY NEVER REALISE THE IMPORTANCE OF CHANGING THEMSELVES TO SUIT AND ADAPT?

John, this is for u.. instead of raising awareness on the cons and cons of our education system, why not help the society by creating people who are excellent in adapting into this system? Why create excellent complainers when you can turn them into excellent adaptors? (bear with me, my english is not as good as john but i am trying my best to get my msg across) By raising the issues on cons of education system, not only u greatly demoralise our government, but u are also infusing the mentality of "change the system when you don like it" into the society! Write books about ways to adapt, or ask them to read anthony robbins' unlimited power! (iQing, this is why i say anthony robbins change my view on life). Furthermore, we all know that if someone could adapt to this system, they could also succeed! Look at ppl like bush, lyzzy, thridshifter, vseehua, chenchow, and the list goes on! You are brilliant, you are a leader, though you are younger than me but you are the kind of person that i am willing to work for... If u voice it, we would follow!

John, i beg of you, stop defaming our teachers... it's not easy to be a secondary school teacher.. don make their lives more miserable.

and stop your works on defaming our education system too. it not easy to rule a country either. Pls.

Thank you.


Last edited by Seiryu on Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Seiryu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear GMs, i am new to recom, and new to speaking in public therefore i am not certain which is personal attack and which is not.... If by any means some lines in my post before is considered as personal attack, pls highlight the lines and post it. i promise i would never repeat my mistakes again. also John, pls forgive me if i was rude. thank you.
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Leen
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to post a reply in this topic too. Just one sidenote though, my English is still wayyy behind most of you here so forgive me fot that.

I am chinese and I had always felt being treated as a second class citizen in Malaysia. Nonetheless, I dont have any hatred or whatsoever towards our people. The only thing bugging me is the special rights and the education system of course.

When I was 15, I was almost as same as he is now. I was talking so loudly in my class ranting about the flawed education system and so on. Even until now, 17, I still feel VERY bad about it. Let me give an example. Let's say Malaysia is a father here. He has one son. He wants to have another son but his wife couldn't have another one so he goes and adopt one. Should he treat his adopted son just like how he treat his own son or should he treat them differently even though both of them are his sons?

15, 17 or maybe even 19 will be the time when youngster start to be aware of their sourrounding and thus, they start to question about the inequality that we are having in Malaysia now. My teacher told me that everything we do now is to prevent Malaysia from becoming Indonesia. He is telling me to be grateful because I can still keep my chinese name and I can still go to church every Sunday. I do appreciate that and a little pat on the back to those Bumis with lesser income or privileges are acceptable but sometimes, things go overboard. I was denied for a scholarship when clearly, I deserve it more than the other guy who got it. Malays got this and that, Chinese dont get this and that. I feel pissed off.

However, now at 17, I must say I have mild down a bit. I tend to think in a different way now. If this system is flawed, then we can manipulate this flaw. Do you know that a lot of chinese actually married Malays for their rights? Of course I am not planning to be one of them but I am taking this flawed system as a motivation for me to work harder. If the government say that in order to get a scholarship, Malay only need 7A1s while Chinese need to get 10A1s, I'll prove that I can do even better with 13A1s. I am not going to rant about it all day( still sometimes), instead I'll make it a motivation for me to push myself even further out.

I do salute Mr John here for his courage and I am indeed jealous of his knowledge since I am not even half as smart as he is yet I am older. (His photo sucks though, no offense.) Being courageous enough to start his own forum, editting wiki and so on, that is something beyond my imagination of what a 15 years old boy can do. When I was 15, I only watched cantonese drama on TV3 everyday and no internet access for me. Laughing This guy is totally different. That I salute him for. As for the content and his idolizing of Mr Lee and Lim, I am not so impressed. His views on this subject catches my attention and I do agree with his post. Even with all that, I do not think that it is a wise decision to rant so much and go so far in criticizing this country's flaws. For me, Malaysia is still my country. I dont think I will trade it for anything else. I know I am small and I cant do much but if I can improve this situation even by a bit, I will try my best for the future generation. I wont just run away from this system. I will fight against it or manipulate it until I have the last laugh.

Maybe most of them are pointless but getting it off my chest is definetely relieving. I hope non will be offfended by this post. I have nothing against Bumis, only some complaints about the policies. Roti canai still rocks and I still eat ketupat every year. Laughing
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Seiryu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leen wrote:
However, now at 17, I must say I have mild down a bit. I tend to think in a different way now. If this system is flawed, then we can manipulate this flaw. Do you know that a lot of chinese actually married Malays for their rights? Of course I am not planning to be one of them but I am taking this flawed system as a motivation for me to work harder. If the government say that in order to get a scholarship, Malay only need 7A1s while Chinese need to get 10A1s, I'll prove that I can do even better with 13A1s. I am not going to rant about it all day( still sometimes), instead I'll make it a motivation for me to push myself even further out.


That is, i believe one of the best ways of adapting ourselves into our system in malaysia... And it has been proven effective. No wonder why chinese are always on the top of the list when it comes to academic ranking in every school...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seiryu:
Quote:
Let me give you an analogy, imagine you are driving on a road and you have to reach a destination on time, what will you feel if the road is filled with bumps and obstacles? Same thing goes here! For most subjects, teachers are only given around 2-3 hours per week to complete the syllabus. If student like you kept bombing her with questions and so on, how do expect her to finish the syllabus? i experienced this and MY FRIENDS scolded me, the words he used to scold me are still fresh in mind. "Shut up lar, let her finish!" From that day onwards, i'd learnt to ask teachers something outside curriculum DURING RECCESS, or WHEN SHE IS FREE.

The problem is when teachers ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE DISCUSSION. (Ahem. Laughing )

Quote:
And what happen to the students when the teachers answer in this way? They start writing books to defame malaysian education system.

Yeah, because it is totally irrelevant to our knowledge of history to know who were the Belanda (Dutch). Rolling Eyes

Quote:
From my experience, if a student can lower himself and request aid from a teacher in a humble manner, there's no reason why a teacher wouldn't help! in fact, the situation where teachers ignore me when i seek for aid never happens in my life before... The most they say, would be "boy, i'm a little busy right now, can u come see me on the fifth period? we'll discuss bout it then"

Strawman. Where did I say teachers discourage or avoid students asking for help?

Quote:
Problem lies, with the students, NOT THE TEACHERS, NOT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, EVEN IF IT IS FLAWED . When they face a problem in a system, they try to change it... They blame, they complain. BUT WHY THEY NEVER REALISE THE IMPORTANCE OF CHANGING THEMSELVES TO SUIT AND ADAPT?

So basically you are denying that teachers have anything to do with out education system's problems? (I should probably point out that much of my book is also spent defaming students who over-rely on tuition and workbooks.)

Quote:
John, this is for u.. instead of raising awareness on the cons and cons of our education system, why not help the society by creating people who are excellent in adapting into this system?

So your argument is we should treat the symptoms and ignore the underlying cause. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Why create excellent complainers when you can turn them into excellent adaptors?

Because people who happen to read my book will suddenly turn into master complainers... Rolling Eyes

Quote:
By raising the issues on cons of education system, not only u greatly demoralise our government,

OHNOES I AM DEMORALISING PAK LAH AND KERISMUDDIN

I FEEL SO GUILTY FOR POINTING OUT THEIR ERRORS

THANK YOU FOR EDUCATING ME ON MY ARROGANT BEHAVIOUR

I SHALL NOT LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN

Quote:
but u are also infusing the mentality of "change the system when you don like it" into the society!

AGAIN YOU ARE CORRECT

WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT, IT IS SOCIETY'S FAULT, NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S

THE BLAME CANNOT EVEN BE SHARED

IT IS 100% SOCIETY'S FAULT FOR NOT ADAPTING

SHAME ON ME AND THE ERROR OF MY WAYS

Quote:
Furthermore, we all know that if someone could adapt to this system, they could also succeed! Look at ppl like bush, lyzzy, thridshifter, vseehua, chenchow, and the list goes on!

That is an unrepresentative data sample. People on ReCom:
1. Are rich enough to afford a computer and internet connection;
2. Have been sufficiently exposed to English to be able to write sufficiently well;
3. Tend to have had more benefits available to them (e.g. tuition, etc.) than those who do not fit the above two criteria;
4. And as a result are among the best Malaysia has.

This is like saying every American student should graduate from university with a perfect GPA because Henry Kissinger graduated with straight As from Harvard. Look at where people here are posting from. Iyzzy is in Yale. Nick Khaw is in Harvard. Thirdshifter is capable enough to be living and working (or studying?) in Connecticut. We are not representative of Malaysian society. Just because most of us can adapt does not mean most Malaysians will be able to.

Quote:
John, i beg of you, stop defaming our teachers... it's not easy to be a secondary school teacher.. don make their lives more miserable.

Maybe it's because I (naturally) haven't made the full book available online, but I don't defame teachers or anything of the sort. I actually exonerate them from most of the blame because it is not the decision of say, a teacher with a degree in physics, to teach biology (this really happened in my school; Form 4 Science 1 was assigned a biology teacher whose specialty was physics). Can you really blame them for being less than fully competent or happy about their job?

Quote:
and stop your works on defaming our education system too. it not easy to rule a country either. Pls.

I tend to cite Al Franken's discussion of patriotism here, but instead I'll find someone closer to home (sort of) and will attempt to paraphrase Bakri Musa's parable of the sultan and the president.

The Sultan stepped out of his palace one day to attend a functin. "Hm, it's rather dark," he said. "Maybe it's going to rain. Let's postpone the function." One of his advisers immediately said, "Yes, it is going to rain." Another said, "Hurry, fetch an umbrella so his majesty will not get wet!" The last one said, "How wise the Sultan is, always thinking about the welfare of his subjects. The people at the function would surely get wet if it rained."

The President stepped out of the White House one day to attend a function. "Hm, it's rather dark," he said. "Maybe it's going to rain. Let's postpone the function." One aide said, "It's not dark at all, it's really quite sunny." The next said, "Mr. President, the people have not seen you make public appearances for a long time. You cannot let them down." The last said, "Yeah, take off your sunglasses! It's a beautiful day!"

Which country would progress faster -- the one ruled by the Sultan, or the one ruled by the President? (Disclaimer: I did not coin this parable. It was written by Bakri Musa -- I just paraphrased it.)

Quote:
Nonetheless, I dont have any hatred or whatsoever towards our people.

What makes me curious is the implication that I hate "our people" (AKA Malaysians). The only Malaysians I hate are the ones who call me a pendatang asing.

Quote:
However, now at 17, I must say I have mild down a bit. I tend to think in a different way now. If this system is flawed, then we can manipulate this flaw. Do you know that a lot of chinese actually married Malays for their rights? Of course I am not planning to be one of them but I am taking this flawed system as a motivation for me to work harder. If the government say that in order to get a scholarship, Malay only need 7A1s while Chinese need to get 10A1s, I'll prove that I can do even better with 13A1s. I am not going to rant about it all day( still sometimes), instead I'll make it a motivation for me to push myself even further out.

Nothing I have ever said implies I am against this at all. Making the best of what you have is obviously a desirable trait.

Quote:
As for the content and his idolizing of Mr Lee and Lim, I am not so impressed.

Sigh...I rebutted this several pages ago.

Quote:
For me, Malaysia is still my country. I dont think I will trade it for anything else.

What makes me curious is whether you think I feel differently.

Quote:
I know I am small and I cant do much but if I can improve this situation even by a bit, I will try my best for the future generation.

I am terribly pessimistic about what even the heaviest movers and shakers can do. The political culture of Malaysia is so messed up that I don't foresee any improvement in race relations in the future -- almost 50 years after Merdeka and UMNO is still talking about "Hidup Melayu" while the Chinese rant about their vernacular schools and the preservation of Chinese education. Apparently just about everyone has forgotten that we no longer live in Tanah Melayu or China -- we live in Malaysia. And if the majority of Malaysians think that way, what hope is there? The status quo is not sustainable. It will have to break eventually, and the only question is what that breach will bode for Malaysia's future. Judging from the situation now, I think that we may yet end up with another May 13, and that can only spell doom for Malaysia and Malaysians (whether they consider themselves Malaysians, Malays, Chinese, or Indians).

Of course I'm not so stupid as to think this will occur any time soon. It may not even happen at all -- the situation now is very blurry and unclear. However, I believe things will be much more black and white within a decade or two. Either we will start moving towards a Bangsa Malaysia, or we will start moving towards Sukarno's "Ganyang Malaysia". I hope time will prove me wrong, but for now, I am not optimistic. All sides of the political spectrum are thinking that the status quo is sustainable. I withold judgement as to whether the status quo is *desirable*, but I think it's clear that we cannot stay in this grey area between a "Malaysian Malaysia" and a divided Malaysia. The grey status quo will have to give way eventually, and the government needs to start planning for the end of the status quo so as to avert an undesirable outcome.

(Sorry if my meaning is not clear; I can be very meaninglessly verbose sometimes.)
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DecentMerson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seiryu wrote:
I'd like to support lyzzy, and speak up for the teachers, and for MY teachers because all this generalizing had defamed MY teachers terribly and i'm very unhappy about it.

In my school, there are about 30% of teachers who are lazy, however 70% of the teachers are very dedicated in teaching, but, the students nvr wanted to listen to them. One of the reasons is because these students had learnt everything tuition classes.. so they tend to fool around, make stupid jokes and sleep during my teachersssssss' lessonsssss! TEACHERS GET FED UP BECAUSE OF THESE BUNCH OF STUDENTS . Most of the teachers are willing to share their knowledge with students who want to share it! If u ask humbly, believe me, not only the teachers would be keen to help, but they would also bring up more materials from the internet to help you. and i stress, this is not rare! From form one till now, there are only about a handful of teachers who come into the class, say do your own work and hussle out of the class before the bell rings.. and FYI, most of these teachers are temp teachers.

The proof of generalizing can be found in your book, i quote:

Quote:
"Teachers also are intended to sere as a human contact point for students to ask questions and discuss the material they learn. That few teachers are open to questions, and that even fewer opely encourage discussion in class shows a mass failure of the system to stimulate intellectual thought and discussion."


Let me give you an analogy, imagine you are driving on a road and you have to reach a destination on time, what will you feel if the road is filled with bumps and obstacles? Same thing goes here! For most subjects, teachers are only given around 2-3 hours per week to complete the syllabus. If student like you kept bombing her with questions and so on, how do expect her to finish the syllabus? i experienced this and MY FRIENDS scolded me, the words he used to scold me are still fresh in mind. "Shut up lar, let her finish!" From that day onwards, i'd learnt to ask teachers something outside curriculum DURING RECCESS, or WHEN SHE IS FREE.

You can ask questions, u can have discussions! But teachers are not void of emotion, they get fed up when they wan to teach something, and students kept stopping her with questions. Also, humbleness from a student is also the key! Some student bear the attitude of "winning a teacher", rather than "learning from a teacher". They post a question, teachers answer. They are unhappy because teachers could answer! they post another one... and another and another until the teacher says, "it won't come out in spm"... And what happen to the students when the teachers answer in this way? They start writing books to defame malaysian education system. Of cos this doesn't happen to everyone. From my experience, if a student can lower himself and request aid from a teacher in a humble manner, there's no reason why a teacher wouldn't help! in fact, the situation where teachers ignore me when i seek for aid never happens in my life before... The most they say, would be "boy, i'm a little busy right now, can u come see me on the fifth period? we'll discuss bout it then"

I'd say that

Problem lies, with the students, NOT THE TEACHERS, NOT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, EVEN IF IT IS FLAWED . When they face a problem in a system, they try to change it... They blame, they complain. BUT WHY THEY NEVER REALISE THE IMPORTANCE OF CHANGING THEMSELVES TO SUIT AND ADAPT?

John, this is for u.. instead of raising awareness on the cons and cons of our education system, why not help the society by creating people who are excellent in adapting into this system? Why create excellent complainers when you can turn them into excellent adaptors? (bear with me, my english is not as good as john but i am trying my best to get my msg across) By raising the issues on cons of education system, not only u greatly demoralise our government, but u are also infusing the mentality of "change the system when you don like it" into the society! Write books about ways to adapt, or ask them to read anthony robbins' unlimited power! (iQing, this is why i say anthony robbins change my view on life). Furthermore, we all know that if someone could adapt to this system, they could also succeed! Look at ppl like bush, lyzzy, thridshifter, vseehua, chenchow, and the list goes on! You are brilliant, you are a leader, though you are younger than me but you are the kind of person that i am willing to work for... If u voice it, we would follow!

John, i beg of you, stop defaming our teachers... it's not easy to be a secondary school teacher.. don make their lives more miserable.

and stop your works on defaming our education system too. it not easy to rule a country either. Pls.

Thank you.


i would say that changing is one thing, adapting is another thing. if we are too afraid to change things, how are we going to improve??? for instance, since the problem (whatever problem it is) is not addressed, (since everybody is adapting to it, instead of complaining or raising awareness), how are we to know there's a problem, and how are we going to implement change? since there's no reason for changing.

generalizing is bad... but in proving your point, i bet ur thinking of that only few teachers are not good, and those not-so-good teachers are temporary teachers is sort of a generalization too... i have met many not-so-good teachers back in high school... and they were experienced teachers, with easily more than 15 years of teaching experience under their belt, however, they were really bad teachers too. it wasn't that the students weren't paying attention or anything, but, their teaching method, and their qualifications were really questionable... not all, but i would say many of them were so...

often so, when certain teachers were late for class, u can find them at the teachers' lounge, sembanging with other teachers, and having a cup of coffee and a piece of kuih... and when they saw me(i was the class monitor), they even sometimes complaint for my searching for them... go figure...

or, they knew that most of us attended tuition classes, so, they were so bold as to tell us that they don't really know this chapter, so, if we have any question, we should go to our tuition teachers... and they weren't temporary teachers, some were even ketua panitia...

and the exams, most of the time were lifted from several reference books, or other states' past years... if we were to adapt to this, it would only be worse...
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Thirdshifter
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry folks, but this thread has served its purpose. There's no need to the continuation of this thread as its going now.. don't waste recom.org server space.

This thread is now the property of Post hotel.
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